swiss motorway tax for 4.5 ton motorhome

[Gazz]

i really love switzerland, but last year we uprated our chassis from a 3.5
to a 4.5 ton version,

on last years tour of europe, the bloke at the border point was trying to
find out if the motorhome was over 3.5 tons, we blagged our way through it
pretending to be 3.5 tons (had a weigh certificate from when the van was
empty at 3.4 tons) and hence we were allowed to buy a standard 40 CHF
vignette and have a brilliant time touring switzerland.

This year however we dont think we can blag our way through, this years tax
disc has the revenue weight of 4.5 tons printed on it (last year is just had
PHGV) and the bloke at the border was looking at our tax disc to see if it
mentioned the weight.

Soooo, what's the proper procedure for taking a 4.5 ton motorhome on the
swiss motorway network??

i imagine it's a pay per mile thing like the austrian go box, but what are
the rates, or is there a vignette available for it being a motorhome?

i've searched the net for hours, found tons of pages on the feasability of
hgv tolls, read that the swiss want to increase the hgv tolls by 50% this
year, read that you have to pay the hgv rate if your vehicle is over 3.5
tons and carries goods and so on.

i am grasping at that last bit hoping that the swiss have done what the
austrians won't... i.e allow a cheaper rate for a heavy motorhome that's
used to tour their country thus bringing money to them from the tourism,
rather than a hgv that's just passing through, dosent contribute anything to
the country, and it's not the driver that pays for the tolls out of his own
pocket anyway.

I guess the answer to this Q will decide if we go back to switzerland again,
been to austria when we were a 3.5 tonner, but never been back since we have
to use the go box, and wont go back whilst we have to pay the same rates as
a goods carrying vehicle.

Also, one last Q, i know that a caravan has to have it's own vignette for
being towed on the motorways, and that a motorbike/scootr needs one if it
uses the motorways,

but are they mean enough to make you get a vignette for a scooter on a
motorhome back rack? the scoots wheels wont touch a motorways surface, but i
just want to check (heck, we also have a dog trailer we tow behind the
scooter, that travels ontop of the scooter's seat when on the motorhome
rack, so if they want a vignette for the scooter, they'd want one for the
trailer too :)

[Bob Douglas]

Post by Gazz
i really love switzerland, but last year we uprated our chassis from a 3.5
to a 4.5 ton version,
on last years tour of europe, the bloke at the border point was trying to
find out if the motorhome was over 3.5 tons, we blagged our way through it
pretending to be 3.5 tons (had a weigh certificate from when the van was
empty at 3.4 tons) and hence we were allowed to buy a standard 40 CHF
vignette and have a brilliant time touring switzerland.
This year however we dont think we can blag our way through, this years
tax disc has the revenue weight of 4.5 tons printed on it (last year is
just had PHGV) and the bloke at the border was looking at our tax disc to
see if it mentioned the weight.
Soooo, what's the proper procedure for taking a 4.5 ton motorhome on the
swiss motorway network??
i imagine it's a pay per mile thing like the austrian go box, but what are
the rates, or is there a vignette available for it being a motorhome?
i've searched the net for hours, found tons of pages on the feasability of
hgv tolls, read that the swiss want to increase the hgv tolls by 50% this
year, read that you have to pay the hgv rate if your vehicle is over 3.5
tons and carries goods and so on.
i am grasping at that last bit hoping that the swiss have done what the
austrians won't... i.e allow a cheaper rate for a heavy motorhome that's
used to tour their country thus bringing money to them from the tourism,
rather than a hgv that's just passing through, dosent contribute anything
to the country, and it's not the driver that pays for the tolls out of his
own pocket anyway.
I guess the answer to this Q will decide if we go back to switzerland
again, been to austria when we were a 3.5 tonner, but never been back
since we have to use the go box, and wont go back whilst we have to pay
the same rates as a goods carrying vehicle.
Also, one last Q, i know that a caravan has to have it's own vignette for
being towed on the motorways, and that a motorbike/scootr needs one if it
uses the motorways,
but are they mean enough to make you get a vignette for a scooter on a
motorhome back rack? the scoots wheels wont touch a motorways surface, but
i just want to check (heck, we also have a dog trailer we tow behind the
scooter, that travels ontop of the scooter's seat when on the motorhome
rack, so if they want a vignette for the scooter, they'd want one for the
trailer too :)

I can't fully vouch for this answer, but with a possibility of visiting
Switzerland again this year, I've done some research on this subject myself.

From posts elsewhere, my latest understanding is that it may well be cheaper
in many circumstances to be over 3.5t!

The standard vignette is an *annual* charge with no shorter period
available, whereas over 3.5t there is a daily charge on the equivalent of
commercial vehicle arrangements, and it is possible to buy a 10 day 'pass'
for less than the cost of a vignette.

It was also implied that this could be filled in with 10 separate,
non-contiguous validity dates, at time of travel, such that you didn't
'consume' a day for days parked up on site.

Even, if this latter is not true, the implication is that purchase of two
separate 10 day passes would not be prohibitive, and would cover most
holiday stays in Switzerland.

Would that Austria were similar!

Others may have practical experience.

Bob

[Gazz]

Post by Bob Douglas

Post by Gazz
i really love switzerland, but last year we uprated our chassis from a 3.5
to a 4.5 ton version,

From posts elsewhere, my latest understanding is that it may well be
cheaper in many circumstances to be over 3.5t!
The standard vignette is an *annual* charge with no shorter period
available, whereas over 3.5t there is a daily charge on the equivalent of
commercial vehicle arrangements, and it is possible to buy a 10 day 'pass'
for less than the cost of a vignette.
It was also implied that this could be filled in with 10 separate,
non-contiguous validity dates, at time of travel, such that you didn't
'consume' a day for days parked up on site.
Even, if this latter is not true, the implication is that purchase of two
separate 10 day passes would not be prohibitive, and would cover most
holiday stays in Switzerland.
Would that Austria were similar!
Others may have practical experience.

Cheers for that reply,

i guess the 10 seperate day form thingy would be fine for us then, would
prolly need a couple of them tho, as we like to tour rather than go one
place and stop (tho this trip we're going to try the stick in one place and
pretend we're a caravan thing :)

we spent almost a month in switzerland last time, tho most of that was
driving the mountian roads,

i guess we 'could' keep the form and pen handy for the passenger to fill in
quickly if we get stoped.

So at least switzerland is back on our list of places to spend out money
again, i just really wish austria would do something similar, i'm totaly
against any kind of pay per mile thing, especialy if it dosent distinguish
between a 44 ton truck full of assylum seekers/computers ziping through the
country on a short cut, and a 4.5 ton motorhome that wants to see the place,
and spend their money whilst there.

[Roland Messerschmidt]

Hi,

Post by Gazz
i guess the 10 seperate day form thingy would be fine for us then,
would prolly need a couple of them tho,

you can either pay for (minimum 10) seperate days (valid one year, CHF
3.25 a day) or for one (or more) month (CHF 58.50).

It does not matter if you are driving or not, the tax is due every day
the car is within the borders of Switzerland.

Post by Gazz
i guess we 'could' keep the form and pen handy for the passenger to
fill in quickly if we get stoped.

I wouln't opt for this. If someone want to see your yesterday's entry,
you're looking old. Minimum penalty CHF 100.

Detailled informations you can find at www.zoll.ch in German, Italian
and French (link for English not active).

Post by Gazz
i just really wish austria would do something similar,

Well, we could discuss road pricing at all.

Post by Gazz
i'm totaly against any kind of pay per mile thing, especialy if it
dosent distinguish between a 44 ton truck full of assylum
seekers/computers ziping through the country on a short cut, and a
4.5 ton motorhome that wants to see the place, and spend their
money whilst there.

This sentence made me think more than twice to answer at all... :-(

First of all, do you think only tourists have to pay? We have to pay,
too! Everyday, each direction.

And than, it's common but very wrong to compare a 4.5 ton camper with
a 44 ton truck.
44 tons need at least 4 axles, so this is simply a higher category
than a camper.


Roland
(Austria, Go-Box user)

[Gazz]

Post by Roland Messerschmidt
Hi,

Post by Gazz
i guess the 10 seperate day form thingy would be fine for us then,
would prolly need a couple of them tho,

you can either pay for (minimum 10) seperate days (valid one year, CHF
3.25 a day) or for one (or more) month (CHF 58.50).
It does not matter if you are driving or not, the tax is due every day
the car is within the borders of Switzerland.

Don't get that bit, if the tax is due every day the vehicle is in
switzerland, then how come if i was under 3.5 tons i only needed the
vignette if i was driving on motorways?

The border guards last time even advised me of an alternative free route to
where i was heading so i could avoid the need for a vignette,

[Roland Messerschmidt]

Post by Gazz
Don't get that bit, if the tax is due every day the vehicle is in
switzerland, then how come if i was under 3.5 tons i only needed the
vignette if i was driving on motorways?

Well, taxes are not always logical... ;-)

There is a big difference between below and avove 3,5 tons.

Post by Gazz
The border guards last time even advised me of an alternative free
route to where i was heading so i could avoid the need for a
vignette,

Yes, below 3,5 tons you have only to pay for the use of the motorways
(vignette), above 3,5 ton you have to pay a "heavy traffic tax" for
the whole time the car is in Switzerland.

Sorry, I didn't made the tax laws.. ;-)


Roland

[Hilary]

Post by Roland Messerschmidt

Post by Gazz
Don't get that bit, if the tax is due every day the vehicle is in
switzerland, then how come if i was under 3.5 tons i only needed the
vignette if i was driving on motorways?

Well, taxes are not always logical... ;-)

What happens with foreign drivers over here in the UK?? We probably have
more foreign drivers than UK born ones.

Its probably a bit daft asking someone living in Austria but I really have
no idea. I've just done a google search and couldnt find anything obvious.
If we dont already have such a vignette or over 3.5 ton scheme we should
have. At the moment it seems we are paying through the nose for everyone
else to use our roads!!!!

They are planning to wack up the levy on petrol, the idea being anyone
buying petrol is paying effective road tax (well thats the official line but
I doubt any of it will actually be used for road maintenance etc).

They are going to almost quadruple road tax for normal size vehicles and
worse for larger engines. We have several cars, hubby being a rustaholic.
The classics over 25 yrs are admittedly tax exempt but anything else isnt.
When you take into account there is only 1 driver so only 1 car on the road
at a time we are already paying many times over. This is also the point with
motorhomes - most people travelling in the motorhome have left the other
vehicle at home in the garage. Perhaps we should be able to claim exemption
for the time out of the country?

:o(

[Gazz]

Post by Hilary

Post by Roland Messerschmidt

Post by Gazz
Don't get that bit, if the tax is due every day the vehicle is in
switzerland, then how come if i was under 3.5 tons i only needed the
vignette if i was driving on motorways?

Well, taxes are not always logical... ;-)

What happens with foreign drivers over here in the UK?? We probably have
more foreign drivers than UK born ones.

Hmmm, so maybe i'd better dig out that spare log book i got when dvla
screwed up when i registered it (never got the first one they sent out,
applied for another, that got lost in their admin system they said, finaly
got the third one, 7 months later the 2nd one arrived... and it says it's a
3.5 tonner)
So short of the border guards putting it on a weigh bridge, i may just
forget about faffing about with the heavy vehicle tax thing, and go as a
light vehicle with the vignette.

For what happens to forigners coming to england... bugger all, they dont pay
owt for using our roads, and the big trucks are all fitted with thousand
plus litre fuel tanks so they don't have to buy any of our expensive fuel
either,

I remember the eddie stobart firm were going to move base to belgium for
that reason a while back, not sure if they ever did, the depot down the road
from me (oakham turn off on the A1) closed down not long after they said
they'd move abroad if uk fuel and tax prices kept on rising.

One thing that annoys me tho... our town is being over run by polish and
latvian/lithuanian cars, (they come here for a better life, yet all the
cars are recent models, not the old skoda's, yugo's and trabants youd expect
from people after a better life :)

But none of them have UK tax discs on them, they dont have to for the first
6 months of bringing the vehicle in to the uk, but there's some i've seen
around town for over 2 years that still arent registered in the uk, so
they're not taxed, and hence dont have mot's on them, wonder if they even
have insurance,

And plod can't do bugger all about it, unless they have a record of when the
vehicle came into the uk, the drivers just say they've been here for a few
weeks, and thus have months left untill they have to register and tax them,
also any speeding tickets they get, nowt happens about them, as they either
get ignored as they are a forigner, or the fine gets sent to their old
address in the old eastern country they left.


Back to the origional Q about swiss tax, i'm happy to buy a vignette type
thing to pay for using the motorway network, as it is good, a bit like the
french autoroutes, if i use them i will pay, i don't unless i really have
to, but it's the option i like,

The heavy vehicle tax seems to be based on axles, making it fair?? not fair
to the 3 axled hobby motorhome driver then is it?
When i uprated my van's chassis, i had the option of adding a tag axle, but
didn't just for that reason, extra tolls on almost all euro roads compared
to a vehicle with 2 axles, exactly the same size and weight, now that is not
fair at all (the 3 axle motorhomes have single rear wheels, giving it 6 road
wheels, my 2 axle motorhome has twin rear wheels, still 6 wheels wearing the
road out, but i'll get charged less just because of the configuration)

anyhoo, may just avoid switzerland this year, will do west and south of
france, then head back through central france, come home for the day
required to get another 90 days recovery and insurance allowance, then go
back out and go round the eastern side of Germany and into poland maybe.

This is my last big trip before my circumstances change, so i'm making the
most of it.

[Josiah Jenkins]

Whilst perusing Usenet on Fri, 11 May 2007 18:00:56 +0100, I read
<snip>

Post by Gazz
I remember the eddie stobart firm were going to move base to
belgium for that reason a while back, not sure if they ever did,

They have a big depot at Lokeren, Belgium.
Just along from a tyre depot I tend to use.

-- jjj

[Hilary]

Post by Josiah Jenkins
Whilst perusing Usenet on Fri, 11 May 2007 18:00:56 +0100, I read
<snip>

Post by Gazz
I remember the eddie stobart firm were going to move base to
belgium for that reason a while back, not sure if they ever did,

They still have a base just outside Carlisle.

:o)

[Bob Douglas]

Post by Gazz
i really love switzerland, but last year we uprated our chassis from a 3.5
to a 4.5 ton version,
snip

Following up my own post

See http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-11162.html for more real
experience.